difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. Definitely start with the sensors. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. Maybe try a search? When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. O2 Oxygen Sensor Kit For Mazda CX-7 2006-2012 2.3 Turbo Petrol (both sensors) New . This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. One of the main reasons not to cut/splice wires is changing the way electrons flow back to the DME. To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. Free shipping . Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. Honestly, with narrow band sensors, it WILL work. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. How many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor? This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. Titania is also used in the manufacture of another type of lambda sensor that offers a faster switching time than the more common Zirconia sensor. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. 27 sold . . Techincally all 4 O2 sensors are the same. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. Expecially since Pre-Cat is difficult to get at. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. Do universal sensors work, well yes. The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system of your car that measures the proportion of oxygen in your engine. Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions. Note its common to have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors. All Rights Reserved. Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Four-cylinder engines have two sensors, while V6 and V8 engines have four sensors. If you unplug the lambda sensor it will need to default to the fuel maps that its already calculated as being good. Sensor 1 is the sensor closest to the engine. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. Other tooling or equipment may be required to determine if it is the actual sensor and not the wiring that is causing the problem. OEM numbers are obviously different. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. and 399 r.w.h.p. The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. Start the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback. Because many late model vehicles have multiple oxygen sensors, be sure you correctly identify the bad sensor so you do not mistakenly replace the wrong one. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned. Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. Both pre-cat sensors are identical. I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. If this is your first visit, be sure to An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. Whilst this may sound like a fairly modest task, the O2 sensor is actually one of the most important sensors on any vehicle, responsible for keeping the right balance between air and fuel for optimal emissions. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://turbobricks.com/resources/O2sensors.pdf, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. Bali Administrator 2013 X1 M-sport Joined Aug 18, 2012 22,344 Posts Don't do it. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Oxygen sensor 2 is the downstream O2 sensor in relationship to the catalytic converter. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. Bank 2 Sensor 1 means Upstream Left/Front; Bank 1 Sensor 2 means Downstream Right/Rear; Bank 2 Sensor 2 means Downstream Left/Front. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. So any cars made after 2003 only used those regular ones for downstream. The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. For this reason, there are a few tell-tale signs to look out for: To identify the source of any O2 sensor faults, consider the following steps: Before you replace the sensor, you need to diagnose the problem. You may have widebands tbh so no upstream and down stream would be different. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. View library content, magazines, workshop manuals and brochures, View all upcoming events including our Regions and Registers, Celebrating the finest Porsches within the Club, Hone your driving skills with exclusive tuition experiences, Find a recommended route near you or discover somewhere new, Eton Travel Group is an independently owned, full-service travel management company, Let Eton Travel Group help you with your future trips, Close and competitive championship in a friendly atmosphere, The Porsche Classic Boxster Cup race series, Competing against the clock in sprints and hillclimbs, Reviving the Pirelli Porsche Classic series, Browse a comprehensive range of Stuttgart's finest, Members can sell their Porsche through the Club's premium platform, Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner, Re: Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner. These Remove passenger side front Use the factory wire retainers i When the vehicle accelerates, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores the lambda signals. 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. Use live data to check for signal if the sensor wiring is difficult to access. Confirm the fault code by selecting live data and comparing the value of the suspect faulty sensor to that of a known working sensor. The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. Required fields are marked *. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? If you need assistance having this checked or repaired, a qualified pro from YourMechanic can come to your location to inspect the system and replace any O2 sensors that are faulty. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. That's where my misconfusion came from. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. 0 Being lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. A4 (B5 Platform) Discussion. You just need to get one precat O2 sensor. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. Other than the connector, is there a difference? Is bank 2 O2 sensor upstream or downstream? 325 e, i have 03 bmw 330xi and bank 2 oxigen sensor wire got burn out touching the four wire, i split it them but now get code p0031,p0600,p0051,p0037 and p0057 can anyone tell me how to check the voltage on those wire or the wiring schematic. Where as before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test JavaScript is disabled. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. sledhead. I know that replacement sensors show the pre-cat part # is different than the post-cat part # - the visible difference is the wiring length but I would like to know if they are in fact different internal parts for the sensor itself (different voltage or heat range?). . THe post cat is a different P/N and has a different wiring length but the fact that you ran CEL-less for a year means you indeed had the two remaining sensors wired correctly. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. How do I know which oxygen sensor to replace? Fantastic products and support with unbelievable performance for the money. This allows for best signal acquisition. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. Downstream means towards where the flow ends, at the opposite end of the waterway from the source. If the exhaust gas mixture is too rich and there is too little oxygen in the exhaust, a signal is sent to the engines Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to decrease the amount of fuel added into the cylinder. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. Pre Cat and Post Cat O2 Sensors For Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A . Wide band O2 sensors have an additional O2 pumping cell to regulate the amount of oxygen present in the sensing element. Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. Could I buy universal one, if not why? tuned with EFI Live. We have good news! If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. O2 Sensor Location. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Why am I still getting a P0420 code after I replaced my catalytic converter? JavaScript is disabled. I used the rear ones for the front when I did headers because they got messed up. Way too much..an OEM O2 sensor is $120-150 from autohausaz.com. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. settings. The sensor is inoperative below 300 C. What to look out for in a failing O2 sensor . So why is the light still on? Contact the seller. There is no different part number for bank1 and bank2. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Local autozone had it in stock less than $100. Most oxygen sensors come with a special electrically conductive anti-seize compound applied to the threads, so its merely a matter of threading the new sensor into the void left by the old one. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. *At Pico we are always looking to improve our products. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. please help. Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. The outer electrode surface is exposed to the exhaust gases and is coated in a porous ceramic, with the inner coated surface exposed to fresh air. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! Last one . Where is the downstream oxygen sensor located? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct "universal" equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Is a brake light and running light the same? with unbelievable performance for the money. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . JavaScript is disabled. Should I replace both oxygen sensors at the same time? Are the sensors indeed the same functionally? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, spyderchat.com is an independent Toyota enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. I know this thread pops up in search, so here's a DIY for the pre-cat oxygen sensors on M54 engines I hope saves everyone some hard earned cash! You never never never get anything done at the dealer, NEVERRRRRR. The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. Our garage has checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. This also happens during initial warm-up. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. . In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. Okay so essentially from my understanding, hopefully, someone chimes in. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Connect a diagnostic tool, such as Delphis DS, select the correct vehicle and read the fault code(s). However they often can skew the reading back to the DME. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. The sensor signal helps keep the mixture just right. Finally, run the ignition and confirm that the check engine light is extinguished, then perform a road test. Your email address will not be published. Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. Check the O2 sensor is reading correctly by confirming the O2 value with a four, or five gas emission analyser. OP is outside USA, so does not have wideband pre-cat O2 sensors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. But Narrowband ranges between 0-1V. Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. Use manufacturer data to identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensor circuits. 3rd wire: Black - signal A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Check your VIN: I would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. i.e. This signal is then sent to the Electronic Control Module (ECM) and the mixture is adjusted accordingly. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Minimize the help page. The product is excellent. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. with 384 lbs of torque. Too much fuel produces hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Remember that bank 1 is determined by the side where cylinder number 1 is located. $71.24 . They reacts to the oxygen content in the exhaust system and produce a small voltage depending on the air/fuel mixture seen at the time. When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. This page could not be found. Could I buy universal one, if not why? Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? I then tried a front universal and all was well. How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. - If a post-cat sensor was modified so it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, would it work? London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. 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